It looks like there may be some discussion in our sport soon regarding an engine size lift from 1.6 to 2 ltr for our class... which means I'll be going from a 4AGE 20valve to ????

Options on the table so far are SR20 (has to be non turbo) - are there good, better & best versions of this engine?
FJ20 - bit heavy though from what Ive heard...

Anyone know of a VVT 2ltr to make a gun motor out of without having to sell the wifes body to finance it? Honda? Toyota? Alpha? options are open at the moment...

Actually - I am willing to sell the wifes body....

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Well from what I know, which admittedly isn't that much, the Honda VVT 2 litre would be the best of those three. Not sure what 'your class' is ... is it going in a Datsun? Your avatar would suggest not. There are pics of a Honda 2litre in a yank 1600 on this site somewhere. It looked the business and was situated way back in the bay, but I think is more suited to LHD due to cant of the engine towards the right.

Not sure how to do that 'click here' thing but heres one S2000 convesrion thread on this site. People with more knowledge than me were impressed.

http://www.ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ight=honda

Cheers, Neil

may i recommend you keep your 4AGE 20V head with individual throttles and bolt it to a 7AFE (camry engine) block?

they're 1.8L in capacity with room for an overbore and have the same size bore as a 4A, just a longer stroke. everything lines up - and so it should since the 7A is a direct descendant of the 4A.

you'll need to make a custom timing crank pulley with an extra tooth, and i *think* you'll need the 4A timing belt, with 2.0mm of diameter machined off the 7A's tensioner pulley. i think you'll also need adj. cam gears too as the cams are still a little retarded from the above mods.

7A bottom ends are pretty strong too (try killing one) but i'd rebuild it with polished internals and balanced everything.

i'm pretty sure the 7A gearbox bolt pattern is the same as the 4A too.

this way, you can keep the 20V head, have a nice torquey 1.8L and maintain the gearbox adaptor plate you have now.

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frankenstein projects R us.

The Republic of Western Australia -
Propping up the Nation's Economy since 1901.

Evidently the honda 4cyl engines turn anti clockwise... checking on that!

pro240c, thanks mate, but the idea will be to drop in an unmodded motor to start with - dont want the extra hassle with a brand new car, engine mods will be another 12 months down the track...

any other suggestions?

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Riv,

You realise, of course, you're going to get a million replies on this one, and cause a huge debate. What have you done!?

Are you planning to buy an engine and just fit it in? Or are you planning to tweak it before hand? I ask this, because that influences your decision.

For example, the Toyota 2ZZGE (celica donk) makes 140-odd kW from 1.8L from the factory. Not bad. But it does this with half reasonable intake & exhaust manifolds + a high speed cam of 292 degrees of duration. It's basically a fit & forget engine. All the basic hot-rodding tweaks are done at the factory!

Other engines, featuring no VVT and more economical headers, might make more grunt after tweaking, but less in stock form. Depends on what you plan to do.

Also, would you consider some serious chassis mods to make a different type of engine fit? If so, perhaps the sooby EJ20? I think this engine has advantages other 2.0's can't offer. It's very short & very low, offering superb weight distribution - excellent for the twisty bits. It's all alloy, and there's truck loads of bits for them. But the chassis would definitely need some serious massaging...

Obviously it also depends on how much money you're willing to spend. In my experience, Honda's cost a small fortune for repairs. Better sell those kidneys! Good engines, but pricey.

As for a basic in-line 4 to build up, I think that's a bit of tricky one. SR20's seem to get their hi-po image from their turbo efforts. In N/A form they don't seem to set the world alight. And they've got those silly rockers in the valve train - if one of those lets go...

Don't get me wrong, they're still a respectable motor, and definitely one of, if not THE 4 pot donk for turbo apps. I'm just not sure that the same applies for N/A.

The Toyo 3SGE is the obvious rival, but it's cast iron, and lacking in valve area. Nothing terribly special.

So, recommendations:

Chassis & engine work: Subaru EJ20.
Engine work: Your guess is as good as mine.
No engine work, high budget: Honda K20C.
No engine work, low budget: Toyota 2ZZGE.

Cheers,

Beef.

Riv,

Just read your last post.

Honda K20C's spin in the right direction. It's the earlier one's that were awkward.

I reckon the K20C or the 2ZZGE would be the go for you.

My $0.04.

Beef.

i didn't think of the 2ZZGE! nice going beef! they're pretty damn good engines too. the roller valvetrain from the 1ZZ and 2ZZ also bolts straight into a 1UZFE...

uh, as far as the 7AFE goes, all you're looking at is a custom crank pulley and a ground tensioner pulley to make it all work - otherwise it's like putting an RB25 head on an RB30 block. prob looking at about $150 - $200 odd for a custom pulley made up by a machinist and about $50 odd to machine down the tensioner pulley.

still, if you're not into it, you're not into it. otherwise, i'm with beef's idea, so make that $0.06...

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frankenstein projects R us.

The Republic of Western Australia -
Propping up the Nation's Economy since 1901.

L20b all the way, no contest

You should seriously consider the Toyota 3SG Altezza (Beams) engine. These things are a serious bit of gear and will make big HP. Even as a standard engine they make great power. To get the full benefit of the variable cam timing you really need to go to a MOTEC M400. The cams can be timied gradually...not juston or off...something I would have thought woudl work very well in your application. You can also do it with an M4 from motec, but you have to use one of the outputs, and you can only switch the cams on/off.

I know of guys making well over 200bhp at the rear wheels with these engines. One guy is making about 180hp atthe rears with minimal mods. He is still using standard pistons, crank and head. He has got bigger cams, 50mm quad throttle and he had a set of rods ready to go.

If your interested in more information PM me and I will give you my mates number, he runs one in his Improved Production Sprinter.

P.S. Do you know of Aaron McKlintock? He used to run an SR20 powered buggy, and won the state title a few years back I believe. Last year he built a new chassis and is now running an LS1 in it. If you do...it's his brother who has the sprinter.

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Go hard or go home!

We've just completed testing our buggy with the SR20NA from the S14 (see the other post). When I say we testing, I was sitting in the nav's seat belting the driver to get him to behave, but you get the idea. In the fairly well packed dirt it was bloody awesome (when compared to the worked L series that came out). However in the really bulldusty part of the track (ie sank up to your ankles trying to walk over the stuff) it was a bit lacking, so if you have lots of super soft sandy stuff the SR may not be the go. Otherwise it was awesome with a couple of gears in the kombi box to get it just about right.

It does make a huge difference being able to walk up to the bastard and push a button to have it start, compared to having carbs popping and farting around.

The buggy is running the SR20 from an S14 with VVT, and was a grand including the computer to run it, just the stock one mind you, but seemed to do the job really well.
Chris

Just as a side note, there have been a couple of occasions in the past season where NA SR20's have beaten outright for the win a Jimco and a few other really high HP buggies.

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I can only please on person per day
Today is not your day and tomorrow's not looking good either.

73 240ZG replica under construcion (grandprix white, fender mirrors and watanabes )

SR20VE

here are some pics to get you drooling hehe:

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1971 Datsun P510 SR20DET 276 rwkW
2005 Mercedes AMG E55 350 kW
1969 Datsun P510 L20B EFI 95 rwkW
1975 Ford XB Fairmont GS Wagon 179rwhp
1980 Escort Van SR20DET unfinished
2002 Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa 185hp

In the VMRC under 2 litre Sports Sedan class, the most popular engines are the SR20 and the 3SG. Paul Thompson runs an FJ20 powered Alfa which is intensely competitive as well. Anthony Koch's 1600 is L20B powered, and he's the VMRC 2004 champion.

The only 2 litre motor banned from competition is the Honda S2000 motor, basically because everyone would have to run one to remain competitive.

From what I've observed, there's very little difference between a race prepped SR20DE or L20B (Before the Flames start - Remember folks - I'm talking RACE, not STREET). According to the stopwatch, the L-series has the advantage over hills; the SR20 has a bit more at the end of the straight.

As far as engine weights go, someone posted a list of Nissan engine weights a while ago (which I can't find!). The FJ20 is heavier than the SR20DE, which is about on par with the L20B.

Cheers,

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Chris [;-{)>

Yep the Sr20 n/a has my vote. Try to find one from a s15 as the VVT has been updated in these engines. The s14 vvt SR20's have some sort of problem with some gear wering quickly. Can't remember what is was but if you go to nissansilvia.com and do a search for vvt noise or noise at startup you will find all the info you need. Nissans fix costs around $800 aparantly. So buy a S15 eninge instead . Check this site out has heaps of stuff on many nissan engines

http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/tech_details.asp

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1928 Model A CC Pickup

Isn't that 'case closed' on which is the best 2 litre then? Although I've just had to replace my keyboard after those pics of the SR20VE

Cheers, Neil.[/quote]

An absolute wealth of information! Cheers all!

Got some numbers to crunch, suppliers to talk to and a gearbox to organise.

The capacity lift for our class is all smoke and vapors at the moment... but if they go I want to be prepared!

yellowdat - cheers for the site.
turbovan - thanks for the mechanoporn!
Z Kid - cant think of any nationals where an NA SR has popped the likes of burrows or rentsche... can you name names so I can contact them?
datman55 - Aarons a real good mate - if you check out the pics of my buggy and compare them to his... check my site and head to buildups. Arrons is The Beast - Mine is the Wolf (Im the surly ($#$*er in the picture)

Thanks again all.

_________________
Life begins @ 160km/h, 6 feet off the ground!
www.offroadracing.com.au/sorra