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 Post subject: FJ running temp
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:29 pm 
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Location: Perth. Working in the bush
Anybody know the running temp of an FJ20t, as my hand controller on my ecu says about 92 to 98 deg, is this too hot or is that about right :?: . And yes the weather has been hot in Perth lately. Just seems that the under bonnet temp in my 1600 is quite warm, is this normal because of the turbo, any help will be appreciated :D

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:40 pm 
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I would say that's a bit hot........I haven't run mine under load yet....but after idling for quite some time etc ti gets up to about 80 degrees, and that's with no real airflow through the radiator, just a small fan.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:00 pm 
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What thermostat does it have? IIRC mine is set for around 98 for the fan to come on, it has one small electric fan and a big radiator. Oil temp without a cooler is more of a worry with mine.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:17 pm 
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with no thermostat 3 core radiator mine use to run at about 70 degrees with the new electric water pump it sits between 80-82 on my handset and i never seen it get passed 84 even giving it ALOT of stick!

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 Post subject: temps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:00 pm 
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Location: lake eppolock, vic
gday, im not sure what temps FJs are supposed to run, but most engines, especially jap engines, run real hot.. like 95c and above

think about it.. pure water boils at 100c right? then ontop of that we add coolant, which doesnt "cool" the water.. just raises the boiling point (among other things).. it actually REDUCES the waters capacity to cool slightly according to autospeed. AND on top of that you run it under pressure, which usually adds up to a 114-126c
boiling point of the cooling system.

holden crudbucket V6s are supposed to run at 100c.. so id expect FJs to run around that.

anyways, 80c IMO is way too low. unless someone can show me otherwise?

oh btw, running your car at a to lower temp can exaggerate bore wear


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:47 pm 
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Location: Darwin. Home of the Rice Car ShitHeap Lancer/Excel and really gay numberplates.
tricky one. What grade is the oil you use? Its just that on my benz, it regularly sees temps of 110 if its hot and we're in traffic with the aircon on. I freaked out the first time it went past 95, but it would seem that they are designed that way, as the thermos dont trigger till 110 degrees. However, the coolant test i did shows it has boil protection for 132degrees. Lemfoerder brand coolant.
My z would see temps of no more than 90 degrees.,

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 Post subject: Re: temps
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:25 am 
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Sorry for the long post. If anyone is interested in Cooling Systems in cars here is some info...

Can everyone say "Thermodynamics"?

Unfortunately Thermodynamics is one of the hardest areas of analysis/study/design/etc... :(

Water has a certain heating/cooling ability, in other words - the amount of energy that has to be added or taken away to change 1 kilogram of water by 1 degree. This is known as Specific Heat Capacity. IIRC ~4180 J/kg/degree.

Water has one of the highest specific heats. Which is why it is used in cooling systems for cars and is also why the tomato in a toasted sandwich stays so f*cking hot afterwards! (Tomato?s have a high water content.)

The heat storage capacity of you cooling system is based on the volume of coolant in the system.

Heat Transfer between the engine coolant and the air is via the radiator.

The cooling rate applied by the radiator is affected by the temp of the air flowing through the radiator, the speed of the air flowing through the radiator, the flow rate of the coolant through the radiator (flow created by the water pump and controlled by the thermostat), the material used for the radiator, the total surface area of the fins (total area the air is flowing past), and total surface area of the tubes (the total area of the coolant contact inside the radiator). So change any one of these and the cooling rate is affected - for example the thermostat changing the coolant flow rate.

The heat being added to the coolant by the engine is affect by the total contact area of the coolant in the engine, the flow rate of the coolant through the engine and the heat the engine is actually putting out (affected by revs).

From all this we can see that the amount of heat a cooling system can dissipate can vary quite a lot. When the system is too efficient for a given set of conditions, the thermostat will control flow, and when the system is not efficient enough, the temperature will continue to rise. In other words, if the amount of heat being added by the engine is less than that being removed by the radiator then flow is controlled and when the engine is adding more heat that can be removed by the radiator then the system overheats.

Almost all of the time the engine is running, the heat being dissipated by the cooling system to the air does NOT match the heat being generated by the engine. Hence, the thermostat is controlling things (cooling system is dissipating more than the engine) or the thermostat if wide open and the system is getting hotter (cooling system is dissipating less than the engine).

Most thermostats have an approximate temperature that they open (allow flow) - the most common being ~86 degrees.

As for what is the correct Operating Temperature for an engine to run at, this is affected by many things... thermal expansion rates of the various materials (block, rings, head, etc) this also affects tolerances/gaps/clearances, wear rates at different temps, thermal stress, expected thermal output of the combustion chamber (revs related), etc. In theory the higher the temp the engine runs at the more Thermodynamically efficient it is but this can affect the other things I listed. The manufacturer works out what is better for the engine and sets up the cooling system as such.

If the engine is going to run at higher levels of operation than a normal road usage*, then generally you need to improve the efficiency of the cooling system (increasing the cooling system?s ability to dissipate heat). This can be done by increasing the frontal area of the radiator, going from a two core to a three core radiator, gearing down (or up) the water pump to get ideal flow rates at the higher average rev ranges of race engines, etc.

Another thing people forget is that the oil helps to cool the engine too. So by adding an oil cooler you can achieve a few things:

1. Longer oil life and/or better oil quality over the period the oil is in the engine.
2. Cooler engine temps.
3. Higher oil pressures (the oil isn?t thinning out as much due to lower average temps)
4. As a result of the above, longer engine and turbo (if fitted) life.



* by higher levels, I mean higher average revs, like in racing, track days, etc.


NOTE: This is my understanding based on my thermodynamics knowledge (minimal) and I reserve the right to be corrected by anyone that knows more than I.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:22 am 
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As a side point......

I had the laptop connected to the motec whe I started the race car last night....engine temp gradually rose until it hit 83 degrees......then all of a sudden the temp started dropping and went back down to 67 degrees before starting to climb gradually again. It took me a few seconds of thought, but eventually my slow brain figured out....the thermostat had just opened! Over the next few minutes the engine temp settled at about 83-85 degrees.

Not sure what others are using for a thermostat, but I am using a thermostat from a Holden grey motor...this was recommended to me by someone who had raced cars with FJ turbo's and had experimented with no thermostats and different size restrictor plates in place of a thermostat....the end result was the grey motor thermostat gave the best and most consistant results.

Hope that helps.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:24 am 
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datman55 the temp should be written on it, usually in F?

I've never had an l-series go over 95 in normal use even with turbo attached.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:49 am 
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Yeah ....I am pretty sure it was.....but it's all sealed up nicely in the termostat housing now.....so I'm not about to upset it :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:10 pm 
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When I got my FJ20T from the importers it had an 82DegC thermostat in it which I assumed to be standard, so when I replaced it I bought an 82DegC one to keep it the same. I have set my thermo fan to kick in at about 84-86DegC.

Maybe I'm a worry wart, but I don't like to see it get too much over 90 degrees because there is not too much of a safety margin before coolant starts pissing out from the radiator over flow bottle. I've already replaced the head gasket once...I don't want to warp anything!

P.S. - I have a redaitor from an N13 Pulsar from memory, which has pipe fittings on the side of it which are currently unsused. I presume these were originally used to cool either oil or transmission fluid. Is it worth me trying to run an oil line to these flanges? How would this be achieved?
Thanks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:16 pm 
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I agree Owey.....maybe I have just had some bad luck, but after doing a couple of head gaskets in the last FJ (n/a) that I had in the race car, anything approaching 100 degrees would get me very nervous.

To borrow a term from the cricket boys.....the "nervous nineties" certainly is appropriate for me.

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When the Flag drops........... the Bullshit stops
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:57 pm 
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zac510 wrote:
datman55 the temp should be written on it, usually in F?

I've never had an l-series go over 95 in normal use even with turbo attached.
Good call zac,
i have a genuine nissan thermostat here that i got for my FJ and it has 82 degC. written on it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:04 pm 
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Location: Perth. Working in the bush
:? Okay then, heres what I have gathered so far. My radiator is a brand new custom 3 core with a slightly larger surface area than the standard 1600 jobbie, 10" thermo fan that kicks in at 85deg, car will IDLE at around 86 deg, but under load seems to run at about 10 deg more than that (94/96). Mind you that was on a HOT :oops: Perth summer day (35+deg). Under bonnet temp is noticably higher than my Lseries 1600, but that may be due to the turbo :roll: LOL. I will ring SST who tuned it and see what they have to say. Thanks for the help dood's :wink:

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'70 P130 Super 6
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Formally: 510 L22B twin webber terror
510 FJ20et (510 FJ)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:09 pm 
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I got some feedback on fj20.com;

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?f ... 1103279055


Quote:
I don't know if this is normal but most of my fj's ran between 80&90 degrees when hot.
The plug gap depends on what boost you want to run,
I had simple NGK BP7ES plugs gapped to .6-.7mm,
but I used to run 20 psi +, with a single coil set up with no cross firing. I also changed to a 4 coil set up too and opened the plug gap to 1mm but at only 15psi it used to play up,mm so I went back to .6mm and had no trouble.
Not to sound like a smart arse but it made 323hp at the wheels at 15 psi and the 4 coils made no difference to it.
I enquired about the spark plug gap as well at the same time, just for my own reference...[/url]


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