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Would you be Interested in a NA power thread ? please dont vote without adding to the discussion.
Yes 87%  87%  [ 13 ]
No 13%  13%  [ 2 ]
Total votes: 15
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:32 pm 
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Ders wrote:
NOS is not naturally aspirated in my opinion.
Agreed.

So guys if your going to do this, FFS do it properly.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:49 pm 
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any additional device or system that artificially forces more air/oxygen into the engine than it can otherwise ingest by means of natural aspiration, is by definition, supercharged. NOS is chemical supercharging.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:53 pm 
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naturally aspirated is induction at atmospheric pressure. Turbo/supercharging is forced induction (pressure forced fual and air intake)

IMO NOS is still N/A, look at it as a different type of fuel additive. it still has atmospheric induction pressure

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:20 am 
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I think I can see why Dave cracked it last time :)

NOS is generally lumped with forced induction by most (all?) racing bodies, regardless of what the exact definition of natural aspiration is.

Datsss73 mentioned that a 165hp motor with a 100hp NOS shot is not that impressive, but when you look at the compression ratios for tough NOS motors they tend to mimic that of tough turbo cars, with lower CRs and tough forgies with retarded ignition to handle the nitrous. Tough in its own right, but without the NOS it wouldnt be surprising if it was a bit flat. Of course the ignition timing point is moot if you are running FI.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:26 pm 
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Bob,

Wait til you guys get started on dynos.

Dave

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:55 pm 
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I just took my pushbike to a dyno and got 256rwkw! I put the oxy torch on the air temp sensor! :)

The dyno debate is unlikely to die off any time soon for sure. Sure different dynos on different days will give different readings, but hey, who cares? I mean noone really gets too worried that on different days you can pull better/worse times on the drag strip. If there is going to be a dyno readings thread, I think the secret would be for everyone to not treat it as a D!ck size comparing comp, but a place to share results from improvements, then it could be great - especially if people could post before and after dyno readings. Since this forum is a pretty social kind of place normally I think there is a chance it could work.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:23 pm 
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Aym23q wrote:
naturally aspirated is induction at atmospheric pressure. Turbo/supercharging is forced induction (pressure forced fual and air intake)

IMO NOS is still N/A, look at it as a different type of fuel additive. it still has atmospheric induction pressure
bollocks! supercharging (by whatever means) is ultimately about forcing more air/oxygen into the engine above what it can aspirate naturally. wether you do that by pressurising the air entering the engine, or injecting oxygen under pressure, you have artificially increased the density of oxygen in the combustion chamber - and that is the definition of super-charging.

even by your simplistic explanation,
"(pressure forced fual and air intake)"
you have pressurised oxygen in a bottle waiting to be forced into the engine at the flick of a switch. how is that not forced induction?


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:42 pm 
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bob260 wrote:
I just took my pushbike to a dyno and got 256rwkw! I put the oxy torch on the air temp sensor! :)

The dyno debate is unlikely to die off any time soon for sure. Sure different dynos on different days will give different readings, but hey, who cares? I mean noone really gets too worried that on different days you can pull better/worse times on the drag strip. If there is going to be a dyno readings thread, I think the secret would be for everyone to not treat it as a d#ck size comparing comp, but a place to share results from improvements, then it could be great - especially if people could post before and after dyno readings. Since this forum is a pretty social kind of place normally I think there is a chance it could work.

I agree, hence my previous comment re making comparisons. But the before/after mods idea is even better! That way you're only comparing with yourself and are unlikely to start an argument.

L18_B110,

Maybe you should lighten up mate. Surely you can see both points of view, you are not compressing the atmosphere on the way in, you are simply adding something to it. If you had a nitrous tank that stored it under atmospheric pressure and used a carby to suck it into the engine, which is entirely possible (if unwieldy), the effect is the same except its not being injected under pressure.

As people have said, both NOS and FI are classes as power-adders, I don't think anyone says that NOS is FI though.

Dave

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:48 pm 
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How about if you cant drive for 20 minutes with it then we dont include it :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:35 pm 
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This is a great idea. Can't wait to finish my car and compare to everyone else's :)

Will be using Dyno Dynamics with latest ShootOut mode. I think everyone else should too.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:42 pm 
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*sits back with his pop-corn*

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AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:58 pm 
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RWKW is only half the story.
if the car doesnt handle & brake then kw's mean sweet fa :)
also what about torque ?


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:13 pm 
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thehelix112 wrote:
Maybe you should lighten up mate. Surely you can see both points of view, you are not compressing the atmosphere on the way in, you are simply adding something to it
yeah, you're adding more oxygen... which is simply another way of achieving the same effect as compressing the atmosphere - ie. more oxygen in the cylinder to make a bigger bang.

No, I can't see the other point of view - ie. that it's like a "petrol additive" :roll:

ask yourself a few simple questions -
1) what is the goal of supercharging? A) to get more air into the engine to create a bigger bang.
2) what is the goal of petrol additives? A) the change the properties of the petrol to increase octane.
3) which does injecting N2O do?


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:35 pm 
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I dispute point 2.

http://www.elfracing.com/pdf/S023002.pdf

``the high oxygen content improves the volumetric efficiency of the engine''

`The world is grey Jack!'

Dave

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USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:32 pm 
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Nitrous works in 2 ways

1 - you heat it, it splits into nitrogen & oxygen, therefore giving you more oxygen which allows you to burn more fuel

2 - when it vapourises it significantly cools the air which increases the airs density.

I would contend that there are 2 issues here then

a - oxygen injection through splitting nitros oxide

b- compressing the air through significant cooling

So wouldnt the airtificial compression of the air part of the equation be equal to a forced induction scenario ? (i'm no nitro guru by a long shot, so please correct me if i'm wrong !.....but aren't these discussions fun : ))


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