people also reckon you can't rebuild ball bearing garret cores - but you can. workshops just don't want to do it, that's all.

i remember someone saying rotors can't be rebuilt, which is why there are so many imports - because people keep blowing them up.

_________________
frankenstein projects R us.

The Republic of Western Australia -
Propping up the Nation's Economy since 1901.

knew i read this somewhere
http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=15

_________________
Dave W

The 1600

Recommended traders: Nissanman, pro240c, 2door510, Datsport, mkyle, Green510, Um_510, jdmdatsun510, Ludachris

Bob,

Err.. by implication I was trash talking Honda engines? I'm sorry if it came across that way, it wasn't how I intended it. I stand by all my statements, they did not relate specifically and only to the Honda engine

1. You don't get anything for nothing. - I won't bother arguing this one as I assume most people agree?
2. There must be compromises. - This follows from point 1.
3. Race engines don't last very long. - This statement is broad and generalised, and hence easily discredited. However, if I specify it a bit further maybe we'll be more comfortable with it?

High-revving naturally aspirated race engines will most often not have a long-enough life to be suitable for production cars.

4. Did I hear a rumour you can't rebuild these engines? - Ok I agree this is a stupid question as almost anything can be rebuilt if you really want it to be. I was trying to stimulate discussions/draw out people who knew about this.

I don't see much in the way of trash talking in my post sorry.

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD

There's a scanned in workshop manual for the S2000 on the net, which shows how to rebuild the motor - checking for crank straightness etc. etc.

Sounds like you can rebuild them to me.

_________________
Recommended trading: datto-510

There you go. Myth: BUSTED.

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD

at dave

_________________
frankenstein projects R us.

The Republic of Western Australia -
Propping up the Nation's Economy since 1901.

I must say I disagree with most of your above points.

1 & 2. I have driven an s2000, Integra type R (both series) and type S (long trips and city stuff) and have a corolla sportivo, 1.8L 141kw (Stock) NA as a daily. All of these motors offer exceptional flexiblity in day-to-day driving. Great fuel economy and in a 950kg 1600 I would imagine performance (with the right driver) that would match a standard sr20t or FJ20t. I personally don't find the corolla a comprise at all as the latest gen VVT in both the honda and toyota is outstanding.

Sure, I'm not towing any car trailers but even with five blokes in the car the sportivo is great.

3. I think you'll find that given honda's (and toyota's for that matter) track record for build quality and reliability longevityof the motors won't be anymore of an issue than a run of the mill Honda civic or toyota corolla. I cane the life out of the sportivo everyday (peak power 7900, rev limiter 8200) and it's now done 15000 and just keeps feeling better to drive every week.

Anyway this is just my opinion based on having driven these vehicles personally.

You also have to remember that these motors are not being built by some bogan in a backshed workshop, and they arent race motors - they are production items and honda are putting thier money on the table that failures are going to be an absolute rarity. If it comes to believing a car companies reputation and financial bottom line over a rumor, I take the companies side every time. Daewoo aside, that is

R30Rally,

If you are going to extract power through high-revs, I'm pretty sure you ARE going to get increased wear on things, simply as everything is rubbing more, or are you saying Honda/Toyota have discovered a frictionless substance for their piston rings/cam lobes?

This is a compromise. You are sacrificing engine-life for power. It may not be much of a compromise depending on the amount of engine-life you sacrifice, but a compromise it is none-the-less.

As for statement 3, I wasn't talking about your sportivo engine. I was using an extreme case as an example, as in extreme cases, the effects are more obvious, but can potentially be related/indicative.

Bob,

No they aren't race motors, but nor are they `run of the mill' engines either. They seem to be somewhere in between, hence the reliability/longevity for performance would logically be somewhere in between too? Oh and I wasn't saying BELIEVE the rumour I referred to, I was trying to stimulate discussion about it - thanks beef. I like debate/information myself.

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD

Sure, I agree with what you said there Dave. I guess when you mentioned compromises the compromise here is initial expense. Based on the marketing stuff that was posted (I really know stuff all about Hondas) they are filling the guts of those things with some pretty high tech stuff.

did i not say this thread would get hot...

_________________
frankenstein projects R us.

The Republic of Western Australia -
Propping up the Nation's Economy since 1901.

Yeah good call pro

Its ok though, its a lively hot rather than a nasty hot. That could change though if someone asks:

how do i pit a f20 in 1600 was gooing to due a sr swap but herd thay are sh#t?

Bob,

Good point. I hadn't really considered initial-cost, but thats definitely a huge part of it. I wonder how many of these high-tech/expensive bits wear/require replacing during a rebuild.



Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD

I see the point your trying to make in relation to rpm versus engine wear, though I don't agree that on average these late model (approx 2001 onwards) require any extra rebuilds than the run of the mill stuff.

Example ford barra 4.0 xr6 turbo. ( I know it's not exactly the same example but I'd rather talk about stuff I know about, rather than bullsh*t).

I meet the head engineer that worked on the turbo project for ford australia and discussed at length the engine life (and testing involved) of the turbo 6 ford. He said without question the turbo motor (and turbo) is designed and built to last, at minimum, for the same amount of km's as the standard ford six and they actually test the turbo motor more thoroughly to ensure this is the case.

As much as I've love to have the same discussion with the equivalent toyota guy re the sportivo motor I doubt that will be possible, though I find it hard to believe the engine in the corolla would require any additional rebuilds in the life of the car as an example (I'm sure the same applies to the honda motors.

Also lets bear in mind were not talking about L-series produced in the 70's, engine manufacture has come a long way in 30 years. Note; I'm not for a second bagging an L-series as I own one, just an example.

Anyway, again this is just my opinion based on some facts and personal experience. Just for the record though I'm not some corolla or sportivo nut it just happened to be the best buy, by far for the price.

I would put my money were my mouth was in relation to a s2000 motor'd 16 if I had the time and the motivation to do it, pity I'd be special.