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 Post subject: Skyline EFI on a L28ET?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:10 am 
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Just out of curiosity, I remembered reading about a Z18ET with a CA18DET efi system (http://www.ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... a18det+cas) so i was thinking if maybe the efi system off a rb25det could be retrofitted to a L28ET?
The CA and RB engines are basically the same right? And there are similarities between the Z engine and the L engine...
One would need the CAS, the maf, coilpacks with ptu, tps or the whole throttlebody for that matter, an o2 sensor.... anything else ?

If anybody wonders why i'm thinking this way it's because I'm looking for cheaper alternatives to a full standalone engine management, plus I like the challenge of doing somthing not commonly done. I'm not saying that a complete rb efi setup plus nistune will be cheaper than a aftermarket system but it doesn't hurt to check it out I think.
I know some people swap the ecu on the L28ET for a Z31 unit and swap the CAS disk from the VG dizzy into the L dizzy, but I have a eurospec L28ET which is about the dumbest thing around and is fuel only with no cas or any sort of ignition controll...
That means for the Z31 conversion I would need to get a hold of a complete Z31 efi setup also, which I can't find, but RB parts and wiring are easier found I see on ebay f.ex...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Location: Dargaville (New Zealand)
If you can come up with an optical dizzy from a L20A i think (you will also need the oil pump shaft which would need to be lengthened but some L28s might have the right one) then this should be a drop in and go on the CAS side.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:09 pm 
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In my opinion, you will still need a tune able EFI system :(

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:04 pm 
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There are many ways you could do this conversion, you could spend so much time pondering that your head will spin. :lol:

In a nutshell, I had the same decisions to make. I decided that the megasquirt option would satisfy all of my criteria which is almost exactly the same as you.

I decided to buy the 3.57 pre-built unit off DIYautotune.com. Do lots of reading and understand what you need. Hybridz also has a dedicated section on this and is reasonably helpful. But it is a learning curve!!

I had spent 25 years playing with carbs and I'm definately an old skool dude!! LOL But I wanted to challenge myself.

I'm happy with it. ATM, i'm running fuel only but I could convert to ignition control but it runs so well that I;m not feeling the urge until I boost it. I put my car on the track and its seen the dyno and it punches out 106 rwkw when an L28 with twin su's and headers/exhaust puts out 86!

Pricing isn't too rich but it's fully programmable and will match whatever mods you do to your engine in the future.

Good luck with your decision making process. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:16 am 
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Nissanman wrote:
In my opinion, you will still need a tune able EFI system :(
Thats where the Nistune comes in.

I have been thinking abput this for the last week, firstly the option of going full standalone efi, but there are so many options my head is going crazy! And those systems are so expensive that if I go that route I won't be able to afford restauring the rest of the car with a new paint job...
I have been looking at the megasquirt but that whole thing just looks a mess in my eyes, and I want to try it but the whole "learning experience" is putting me off. I want a nice box with a bunch of wires and a big ol' manual that explains every hookup, not having to browse through 90 different forums and websites just to get it idling... :/

I was thinking about the microtech fuel only controller though, but will fuel only management suffice?

No mods currently but I recently accuired a RB25DET oem turbo which I will put on, probably running it at no more than 0.8bar and I will be bolting in a intercooler. I'm not sure though what happens further down the line, turbocars are a vicious cycle :twisted:
The main reason I want to upgrade the efi system is driveability, the 30 year old efi system isn't all that great and I'm pretty sure I experienced some lean stumbling on my last trip and it's pretty harsh coming on or stepping of the throttle sometimes when cruising around town...
Will a fuel only ecu be able to get me that smooth driving experience I'm after?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:34 am 
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Well, used Haltech systems are going pretty cheap on ebay nowadays, might be wise to check them out.
I used a Haltech F9 fuel only system on my FJ20[NA] for years and was just fine, and is available if someone wants it.
I had a stand alone High Energy Ignition System which performed faultlessly.
Hall Effect sensor in the distributor and a driver box from a Jaycar kit.
You could go fuel only but if you intend to go forced induction you ideally should have programmable ignition as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:14 am 
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I have already gone forced induction by swapping the driveline and efi system from a 83 ZX turbo into my 280Z.
But there is a difference between european turbo zx's and what was delivered in other parts of the world like the us f.ex. as here we got the idiot efi system, no lambdasensor, no optical dizzy and ignition control or anything like the more complex US turbos. Fuel only


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:20 am 
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Location: Dargaville (New Zealand)
OK ive had my loom CA18 loom on the bench with the optical dizzy i spin dizzy i get crisp spark and injector pulse. I havn't got to the point of start up as i have to rebuild the motor first which im starting on now.

Parts you will need for the RB conversion.

An early RB20 ECU that can be chipped. Or what ever Nistune can do if you go that way.

The loom from that ECU and intake manifold to raid all the sensors off it. Basically use all of or as many (there is a few you don't need) and adapt them onto the L28E manifold.

I can't stress more find an optical dizzy from an injected L series. This will have 90% of the hard work done for you straight away. Just the oil pump drive might be tricky. But i think that the L28ET (look state side) has this dizzy and oil pump drive.

Once you have all the sensors on strip all the tape off the harness and plug everything in.
Coil packs you can go a few ways. Buy or make a wasted spark set up for the RB engine and use plug leads. Or make a bracket and run the coil packs like i have done.

Shorten lengthen all the wires you have to and work out how to power up the ECU etc add relays for fuel pump switched earth feed and run the wire for that. Seeing you already have an EFI car it should be so much easier.

Crank it over and see if it fires.
Use the RB20 MAF sensor and injectors. Crank it over and it should fire. You may have a small issue with injector sizing to get it to start as 2.8L is alot larger than 2L
If you have nistune you should be able to tweak fuel and timing to get it to basically run before it goes for a tune or you start changing things like injectors etc.

_________________
Past:
A10 160J Coupe
R30 Turbo Manual
Present:
KP710 160JSSS Coupe (My Standard Car)
KP710 160JSSS Coupe (My SR20DET 6Spd Car)
KP710 140J Delux (New Road Car)
KP710 Parts POS


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:32 pm
Posts: 158
Thanks for good answer, let's discuss :)
unlimitedpower wrote:
OK ive had my loom CA18 loom on the bench with the optical dizzy I spin dizzy I get crisp spark and injector pulse. I havn't got to the point of start up as I have to rebuild the motor first which im starting on now.

Parts you will need for the RB conversion.

An early RB20 ECU that can be chipped. Or what ever Nistune can do if you go that way.
Yeah, the plan was nistune, that way I can tune for different injectors and besides that I should get a pretty decent running motor. I will need either a laurel/cefiro rb20 ecu, r32 rb20 or a VG30ET or DETT as the rb25det ecu is not supported. Should be easy to find on ebay or similar, maybe easier on a skyline forum

The loom from that ECU and intake manifold to raid all the sensors off it. Basically use all of or as many (there is a few you don't need) and adapt them onto the L28E manifold.
I have a friend of mine that has a blown r33 rb25det, he is willing to sell me the maf, cas, throttlebody with sensor and coils. It's a series two so there might be slight modifications required to use an older efi like swapping a couple of wires around on the cas connector and the coils has a built in igniter so I would need to wire them directly without ptu I guess. Wiring harness would also have to be sourced since he had already sold this, again ebay or appropriate forum

I can't stress more find an optical dizzy from an injected L series. This will have 90% of the hard work done for you straight away. Just the oil pump drive might be tricky. But I think that the L28ET (look state side) has this dizzy and oil pump drive.
I have a friend who can operate a lathe so making an adapter for the cas to bolt on to the distributor flange shouldn't be to hard as long as I supply the correct measurements/drawing. BUT(!) you are saying that the signal from an optical distributor will be enough for the RB ecu? And you are correct about the US market 280ZX turbos having an optical dizzy, they got the ECCS system over there whereas here in europe we only got the less advanced EFI system...

Once you have all the sensors on strip all the tape off the harness and plug everything in.
Coil packs you can go a few ways. Buy or make a wasted spark set up for the RB engine and use plug leads. Or make a bracket and run the coil packs like I have done.
I already have the "drawings" for a bracket made up in my head, haha.

Shorten lengthen all the wires you have to and work out how to power up the ECU etc add relays for fuel pump switched earth feed and run the wire for that. Seeing you already have an EFI car it should be so much easier.
Yeah I have the efi and fuel pump relays and wiring already in place since installing the L28ET. Not as intimidated by efi wiring now after the swap as I used to be(Otherwise I wouldn't even be considering this I guess... )

Crank it over and see if it fires.
Use the RB20 MAF sensor and injectors. Crank it over and it should fire. You may have a small issue with injector sizing to get it to start as 2.8L is alot larger than 2L
If you have nistune you should be able to tweak fuel and timing to get it to basically run before it goes for a tune or you start changing things like injectors etc.
Yes, thankfully this is easily adjusted within nistune :)


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