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Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? http://www.ozdat.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14814 |
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Author: | 256fqq [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:54 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? | |
if anyone has flanges to measure...if possible to post some measurments
anyone can help with above?.....spline dia for : 5x1 flange 3x2 flange thanks dunno if anyone has read this.. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=114798 a great read |
Author: | nick [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
you know theres more than one type of 3x2 flanges... Be more specific. |
Author: | 256fqq [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
no i didn't......early and late? |
Author: | nick [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:36 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? | |
dr30 cvs are same as Z31/HR31 NA which is three pairs of two bolts sort of like (but 10-11mm larger than) R30 Skyline cv's.
Ive got both dr30 and r30 on my bench atm and that cv is different to them. |
Author: | 256fqq [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
well if anyone could post dia , what its from that would be of help... on the z forums in the states (trying to find) a 280zx 6x2 stub axle flange fitted straight onto a 1600 stub... i have 4 bolt cv's and will be using hr31 4 bolt stubs thru my arms...... i found a bearing that fits.. |
Author: | nick [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
If you are using 4bolt flanges and stubs why do you want 6bolt (3x2) measurements? Pretty sure ive still got a couple different 6 bolt flanges/stubs at home, if its really needed i could check those (R30 and DR30/Z31 i think)... Updated* MR30 were 26mm x 25spline. DR30 were 28mm x 26spline. I know for a fact that Z31turbo 4 bolt flanges interchange with DR30. So there seems to be two different sizes in these types of nissan. Models that have 25 splined hubs and ones that have 26splines. -Aussie R30/MR30/1600/180b/200B/jdm Bluebird910/etc have the 25spline. -DR30/HR31/Z31/ etc have the larger 26spline. (S12 the same?) |
Author: | 256fqq [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
buddy...i'm just trying to help out.... i've got my sh*t sorted.... don't worry i guess... |
Author: | SR20Datsun [ Wed May 30, 2018 12:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
Now this is some classy $hit. Well thought out and elegant design. I'd really like to see some more photos of this Alan. Great job on this. |
Author: | AlanDatsomefun [ Wed May 30, 2018 12:51 pm ] | ||||
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? | ||||
Thanks. I'm continuously amazed by how many different ways there are to modify these little Datsuns. Some photos have been uploaded under another thread relating the R31 rear disc brake track width. See R200 long nosed LSD I have prepared as upgrade path for the future, with modified GTR axles. The centre I have used is a Gleeson-Torsen (helical) one, but you could use one of the many clutch types available, provided you know for sure that the GTR axles fit the LSD centre. Yes, the axle flange has to be trimmed down otherwise it will foul the underside of the car and/or the moustache bar (Datsun 1600). To be completely sure that this will handle as much torque as the axle shaft, I plan to change the design slightly by drilling out the threaded holes (8.0mm) in the flange and having holes through instead. The CV joint will be held in place by bolts going right through to a CrMo steel alloy ring with six threaded holes. Also, I plan to use dowel pins to ensure the ring cannot move relative to the flange axle. This will be installed on the diff side so the whole thing bolts up tight with Gr12.9 bolts. Each flange axle will have to come out to install the ring, of course. NOT "Double Shear" : Incorrect use of the term ... the bolts being in "double shear". This comment was made by somebody else earlier in this thread. The best arrangement is to have the head end of the bolt passing through the CV, then through the flange with the threaded end screwing into the threaded steel ring. Technically, this would be double shear only if the ring and the CV were fixed together (that is, being one piece) and unable to move relative to each other with the flange able to slide in between. THIS WOULD NOT THE CASE: SUCH WOULD BE HIGHLY UNDESIRABLE. The clamped arrangement with CV/Flange/Ring being individual components clamped together with high tensile bolts is going to be very strong because CV and the ring are very stiff (practically inflexible) with the flange being comparatively less stiff. There will be massive frictional forces between the clamped parts: when tightened, the bolts will be in tension (only) with shear loads taken up by the friction at the interfaces between CV/Flange and Flange/RIng. When the parts are firmly clamped together by the bolts being fully tightened (e.g., 30ft.lb for M8x1.25 Gr12.9 bolts threaded into steel), there will be NO SHEAR LOAD taken by the bolts ... however, it would be a very different story if the bolts were loose or to become loose.
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Author: | Coz22a [ Wed May 30, 2018 7:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
Yes, very neat Alan, as usual. I’m intrigued by how you have determined the bolt torque value for the various applications. How do you calculate this? Cheers Mick |
Author: | AlanDatsomefun [ Thu May 31, 2018 9:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
Mick, We very often incorrectly tighten fasteners: small bolts - overtightened; large ones - not tight enough. Even when an engineer has calculated the correct torque for us we tend to rely too much on having a "calibrated wrist", rather than using a torque wrench. Calculating torques for the correct tightening of fasteners is a science in its own right. You could start with MIL-STD-H28/A, but seriously there are some very good resources on the Internet: for example search "tightening torque for bolts calculation" or "clamped flange design" or go to the fastener manufacturer guidance. If you are using a particular fastener like ARP, they have excellent customer service and once you tell them exactly the conditions under which you are using their fastener they are very happy to tell you what they know works from experience (long after somebody did the initial theoretical calculations). I recently asked ARP about the correct interference fit of a 8xxxx series CrMo stud in an 6061-T6 alloy brake hub and they came back to me in a day or so with the exact details for the particular sized stud pressed into the aluminium alloy: result = zero problems in service. Flanged joints using high tensile bolts, threaded inserts in alloy materials that are relatively easily deformed are particularly complicated. It's best to imagine that every component involved is actually a spring with its own stiffness, some being stretched others being compressed: springs that are over-stretched, compressed solid or loose are all useless. The aim is to have every spring with just sufficient pre-load (tension or compression) on it to keep everything together firmly under all operating conditions. The joint must be designed so that "plastic (permanent) deformation" does not occur either during assembly or in service. Alan |
Author: | Coz22a [ Thu May 31, 2018 2:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
Thanks for the info Alan, I will check out your reference. I’m a structural design engineer, generally working in the construction industry. I’ve never looked at torqueing of bolts but have looked at tension in bolts due to the initial bolt torque + imposed actions from the structure. I could see specifying bolt torque values was a bit of a black art as they would vary by materials as well as assembly procedures and, probably many other things. It just got me thinking. Cheers Mick |
Author: | AlanDatsomefun [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? |
IMHO, by far the best "off the shelf" CV axle set-up for Datsun 1600 is that now offered by MDR Automotive, http://www.maddat.com.au. Axle kits are designed to be compatible with R180 LSD out of STi WRX (preferably mechanical LSD type with plates or, if you prefer, Quaife have a Gleeson-Torsen R180 115mm LSD centre with circlips) or long nosed R200. For both R180 and R200 set-ups CV axles push in and are held by circlips. They have much better splines and quality CVs. Yes, they are expensive, but this really is a case of ... "you gets what you pays for!" Well done to Scott and Paul at Maddat! |
Author: | jimmmy [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:22 am ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Strong C.V/Drive shafts and Big Clutch options? | |
IMHO, by far the best "off the shelf" CV axle set-up for Datsun 1600 is that now offered by MDR Automotive, http://www.maddat.com.au. Axle kits are designed to be compatible with R180 LSD out of STi WRX (preferably mechanical LSD type with plates or, if you prefer, Quaife have a Gleeson-Torsen R180 115mm LSD centre with circlips) or long nosed R200. For both R180 and R200 set-ups CV axles push in and are held by circlips. They have much better splines and quality CVs. Yes, they are expensive, but this really is a case of ... "you gets what you pays for!"
AlanWell done to Scott and Paul at Maddat! Looks like we are neighbours. Great info!! I have looked at the maddat x member and it appears pretty solid. I dont suppose you have any idea of how it compares to other products on the market? I guess at the end of the day it just comes down to how much adjustment there is, in what plane (toe, track and/or camber) and how easy it is to do said adjustment? Cheers James |
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