hey guys, sorry about all the recent post up here, but keep hitting problems with my latest supercharger project. ok i have an ignition timing control module here that came with VERY bad fitting and wiring instructions. I was wondering if anyone can help me with identifing where these wires go to make it all work.

1, what wire is the signal on an s2 dizzy as there are 2 little black ones in the dizzy unsure what one to use..
2, what wire is the voltage wire on s2 dizzy
3, what wire is to ZERO voltage wire on s2 dizzy
4, what wire is the coil driver wire on s2 dizzy circuit.

all advice would be really handy as i need my car goin asap

What brand timing control unit have you got?

Is this for the ability to retard the timing as boost increases?

Throw me some more info and specs about it.

1, Dont touch the little black wires coming off the reluctor coil. Tampering with this will cause you problems.
2, Positive voltage is the same wire that bolts to the coil positive. (cream or green in colour iirc)
3 Negative voltage is the same wire (black) that bolts to the coil negative. This will have a extra tab wire at the end for running your tacho.
4, Unsure about this question, as there is only positive and negative wires for the dizzy to run. I presume this will require the negative wire (black w/ little tab wire) as this controls signal. Hence why your tacho receives its signal.

...and just because I can, here is the 910 SII Electronic Ignition Schematic The wire colours added are my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong

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Regards, Graeme
Just trying to help...
http://nissanman.shutterfly.com/
graemes@internode.on.net

hey guys its a jaycar programmable ignition, i uploaded a pic of the diagram that i was following. really confused on this damm think

I may be able to help here, I have built and tested this kit but not yet installed it (S2BB dizzy working great for me right now, got other stuff to do). Be warned, this could get wordy

I totally understand your comment, but bear in mind the "instructions" are just copies of the Silicon Chip magazine articles this kit came from - written for electronics techies, all Jaycar have done is assemble the parts in one bag so you don't need to tediously order them separately and give you a copy of the article so you don't need to find a back issue. Would have been nice to include a plain English version though ! aaaanyway...

The diagram you uploaded isn't the one you need to follow unfortunately, the coil and magnetic pole-piece arrangement in the S2BB dizzy is actually a reluctor type. The S2BB module on the side uses the AC pulses generated by the reluctor coil (black wires, terminals 3&7 on the module diagram) to time the charge and discharge of the ignition coil via the green wire - this is the wire that would be the points connection on an old-school dizzy. The pink wire is just +12v to power the module's electronics when the ignition is on.

Seems to me you've got 2 options here -

Build version A of the kit (P68,top), leave the S2BB module intact and run the green wire to "Trigger Input from Points or Iginition Module". In this format it's working as an ignition interceptor, it's certainly the easiest option (less kit parts to change and no surgery required on the ignition module). The fact that you need the dizzy's ignition module to keep working isn't such an issue since it no longer has to sink big amps into the coil itself which is it's most likely failure point - the big 100R/5W resistor you need to add to the kit circuit board for this version acts as a load for the BB module but the current required is much lower.

Or, build version C (P69,top) using the 2 black wires you can see with the dizzy cap off (the reluctor connections). In this version you take the dizzy's ignition module out of the picture entirely, which may or may not help your clearance issues but will be one less thing to fail. The downside is more kit parts to change and some surgery on the dizzy module - I haven't opened mine up to look but if you could simply unsolder the green, pink and 2 black wires and neatly connect one black wire to pink, one to green with heatshrink on the connections that would be pretty neat and tidy and allow return to standard should the need arise. If that's not possible then however you do it the two connections at the reluctor coil under the cap need to end up connected to the "From Reluctor" terminals on the kit circuit board. If you have access to an analogue (scale and needle) multimeter put it on a low DC voltage range and clip the leads to the reluctor coil terminals, then turn the dizzy the way it turns when the motor is running and watch the needle. As the pole-pieces pass the pickup the needle will jump one way then the other very quickly - ideally you want it so that if the needle jumps in the positive direction first, the reluctor coil terminal you've clipped the negative lead to should end up connected to the round solder pad on the kit circuit board, the other one should be connected to the square solder pad (0v). This isn't crucial but will prevent any tiny timing errors across the rev range - the kit circuit looks for a -ve going pulse to trigger from so it's best if the reluctor coil output jumps in the negative direction first.

imho, I think if you're going to use a S2BB dizzy to do this leave the module alone, go the interceptor (version A). I can see no obvious technical advantage to version C, and version A is just as elegant, leaves the dizzy intact and I've just realised - gives you a limp-home option if the Jaycar kit fails Just reconnect the green wire to the coil -ve instead of the wire from the little Jaycar "Trigger" module and drive home bearing in mind you have no mechanical or vacuum advance systems because you presumably locked them both out already. Crap, I built version F for my old Pirahna-optical dizzy and now I am seriously thinking I'm gonna break out the soldering iron and go for version A and the S2BB dizzy instead

Sorry about all the words, but thanks for getting me thinking about this - the Jaycar ignition just upped itself in the priority list.

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1971 Datsun 1600 Wagon - finally getting the attention it deserves.
1972 Datsun 1600 Sedan - rescued from oblivion, awaiting a new lease on life.
1998 Honda XR400R - had one, sold it, missed it, bought another, keeping it.

thanks very much for the info really appriciate it, im going to have a good old read through the manual and study your instruction guide.. if all else fails would you be interested in a cashee:-) you seem damm switched on with electrics

No probs, and feel free to ask if some of that doesn't make sense. I'm not a turbo guy but a supercharged L-motor is on my wishlist, so if you get stuck with the ignition and you're around Adelaide somewhere let me know - be interested to see how you've done it, no cash req'd but I will have questions !

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1971 Datsun 1600 Wagon - finally getting the attention it deserves.
1972 Datsun 1600 Sedan - rescued from oblivion, awaiting a new lease on life.
1998 Honda XR400R - had one, sold it, missed it, bought another, keeping it.

your a champ!! its very hard to find good help with this sort of thing. i looked at the book breifly today, i cant really see the difference in diagram i posted up here and the version A you told me to go for apart for two extra wires, do i need to pull them out the circuit board

The only change I can see is taking out the little "100R" resistor half-way up the left side of the board in version D and adding the bigmutha 100R/5W resistor in version A. The big resistor goes in different holes though - this is the thing the BB ignition module sees as the load (instead of the ignition coil) so it needs to be a 5 watt resistor to handle the heating effect. Without that the BB module's output will be less stable and more likely to pick up electrical hash from the HT wires and alternator field windings - if you went for version C you might have headaches because the reluctor output is very low power and would need to be electrically shielded to avoid false triggering.
The +V and 0V wires from version D can be curled up inside the box as long as the ends are insulated, and the "Signal" wire needs to be connected to the green wire from the BB module. The other wire (pink?) from the BB module can be left connected to the coil +ve so it still gets power.
From memory you're running the advance/retard vacuum unit so you can ignore the "MAP Sensor" wiring at the TL corner of the board - this will make programming the setup easier too since you're only dealing with a 1-dimensional RPM curve and not the 2D RPM x Vacuum matrix in the manual.
While I'm thinking of it the manual suggests setting dwell timing by using a spare spark plug and upping the dwell until the spark maxxes out - I'm not so sure this is a good method since a spark is less inclined to jump the plug gap when it's in the motor, especially under rich and/or boost conditions. imo will need a bit more, but don't know how much.

_________________
1971 Datsun 1600 Wagon - finally getting the attention it deserves.
1972 Datsun 1600 Sedan - rescued from oblivion, awaiting a new lease on life.
1998 Honda XR400R - had one, sold it, missed it, bought another, keeping it.

righty-o. i have modified my circuit board so now its like version A. now to wire it in.. i simply un plug the green wire for the ignition module run that to the input of the jaycar unit the from the output on the unit goes back to the module where the green wire was once plugged in? am i on channel here of am i way off the money. also is there a base map i have to download off the net for this unit or is it a simple plug and play..

Yep, that's the go - unplug green from ignition coil -ve, connect to main kit circuit board input. Connect the 2 Jaycar boxes like the manual says, and the output from the smaller "Trigger" box goes to the coil -ve. Mudmap attached.
I'll have to check on the base map question, from memory all the timing values start at zero but I could be wrong there - will have a look and let you know.

_________________
1971 Datsun 1600 Wagon - finally getting the attention it deserves.
1972 Datsun 1600 Sedan - rescued from oblivion, awaiting a new lease on life.
1998 Honda XR400R - had one, sold it, missed it, bought another, keeping it.

DAMM it, i dont have the trigger circuit box, goin to have to purchase the kit and build one

Yep, you'll need that - it's basically a dirty great transistor (and some support components) that switches your coil on and off when the main box tells it to. It's separate from the main box 'cos the transistor switching on and off causes electrical hash and would scramble the little CPU's brain, so it should be mounted near the ignition coil and not too close to the green wire from the BB ignition module. Bit of a squeeze in that tiny box, and you have to make sure nothing shorts out when it goes together. It'll get hot too, so try and mount it flat and solid so the car can act as a heatsink.
I'm assuming you have the LCD Hand Controller ready to roll too, there's no downloadable map so you need to use the hand controller to input all the setup data and your ignition map. The good news is that because you're using the vacuum advance/retard on the dizzy you only need to program 12 or 15 rpm advance points depending on which map setting you use (2x 12x12 maps or 1x 15x15 map). Because there's a 100k resistor on the vacuum sensor input acting as a "pull-up" the CPU will always see close to 5V at it's vacuum sense terminal and you only need to program the "LOAD1" line. If you're looking at the LCD display and the LOAD reading changes at all you can swap that 100k resistor (near the bottom RH corner of the bigmutha resistor) for a lower value or even just replace it with a wire link. Just don't forget to change it back if you ever go for a MAP sensor of some sort or you'll blow the sensor's output driver.
When you wire it in, I'd suggest wiring the "+12V Ignition" for the main and trigger boxes to the ignition coil +ve. This way the CPU in the main box sees the same voltage you're getting on the ignition coil and it will automatically compensate for the voltage drop you get when cranking or a dodgy battery/alternator (increases dwell time). As for the 0V (chassis) connections, make them as solid as possible at a good earth point with fat wires no longer than they have to be.
If I can find the time I'll try and get mine installed in the next few days so I can talk sense on the programming side of things.

_________________
1971 Datsun 1600 Wagon - finally getting the attention it deserves.
1972 Datsun 1600 Sedan - rescued from oblivion, awaiting a new lease on life.
1998 Honda XR400R - had one, sold it, missed it, bought another, keeping it.

im not running any vac advance, as i was told by the dodgy bloke who sold me this jaycar unit from the start that if the jaycar unit would not function correctly with vac advance. anyways, should i be modifiying the main cpu more or changing some wiring in my coil driver? i am wiring up the coil driver to standard negavtive firing..

Standard negative firing is the go for the coil driver, unless you inverted the output on the main board (p71).

I missed one more resistor that's different between version D and version A - the 1k at the bottom RH corner of the bigmutha resistor needs to be removed, or chopped off at the legs.

As for vac advance, my mistake - I thought from the "supercharger dizzy help" thread you were using a double-action vac/boost unit from a turbo car. If you want the kit to handle the vac adv/boost ret side of things you'll just need to wire in a suitable Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor, one that will handle the maximum boost you're aiming for. The 3 terminals to hook up the MAP sensor are at the TL corner of the board next to the D-type connector. I got a vac only sensor out of a jb barina for $10 at the wrecker, you might find one from a turbo car that can handle 1 bar of boost. If you want to crank that blower up more than 1 bar then someone else may be able to point you in the right direction, or you can buy them new. The circuit board has space for a particular sensor but I can tell you from experience that they are expensive, fragile, hard to find and I don't think there is one for more than 1 bar (~14.7psi) of boost.

Of course, all my waffling about only having to program the LOAD1 line is out the window if you want to control the vac side of things from the kit too, you'll need the whole 11x11 or 15x15 matrix - no big deal, that's what the kit is made for anyway and it gives you more control.

_________________
1971 Datsun 1600 Wagon - finally getting the attention it deserves.
1972 Datsun 1600 Sedan - rescued from oblivion, awaiting a new lease on life.
1998 Honda XR400R - had one, sold it, missed it, bought another, keeping it.