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Muzz's 71 1600
http://www.ozdat.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34174		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  RJB510 [ Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
What class did you run in and what years? 87 - 89 perhaps?
Dad used to race a 180bsss in sports sedans after rallying etc.
I LOVE seeing pics and vids of the old rally and circuit datto's!
Author:  Muzdat [ Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
The black and white photo was taken in the 80s at a purpose built dirt sprint circuit we used to have in the Newcastle area and I would have been (what was known then as) Type 2 under 2L and the other two were in the 90s and by that stage I would have been in Type 2 over 2L
The demise of all 3 circuits was because of the encroachment of new housing (sound familiar!)
Author:  RJB510 [ Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
Ahh ok, Dad was under 2L sports sedans. Ran at Amaroo, Oran Park and the dirt circuits at both those tracks plus a few other tracks and sprints. Through NSWRRC and Nissan Datsun Drivers club. But he finished in 89.
Yeah, Oran Park was disappointing. They could get more money for the land. Unfortunately if they were smart, they would have zoned it "Motor Racing". I've heard many stories, but its happened and we're losing tracks. It's sad really, but move on.

I'm just lucky that I was able to go around (unfortunately only as a passenger) before they closed Oran Park. Only on the south circuit, but the guy i was with was still pulling a 51second lap. I was happy!

Anyway... What's next on the car Muzz?
Author:  Muzdat [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
Hi Ross
The next thing I want to do is change my diff ratio from 3.9 to 3.5 which is the exact opposite to you :lol:
At freeway speeds (110 km/h) it just feels like it needs another gear. The S15 SR20DET has ample torque to deal with the higher gearing.
On the issue of old race circuits, as you're from the Blue Mountains, have you ever been around the Catalina Park race circuit at Katoomba? It once was used for top level motorsport but has been closed as a sanctioned race circuit for about 35 years. It was used for club level super sprints up until about 1992. I did a super sprint there in 1991 This YouTube clip is not me, but may well be from the same event. Because the track is narrow they would only let one car at a time on the track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXSn_1oHM_Y
Author:  RJB510 [ Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
I live 10k from Catalina! Yep, its all changed now, looked like quite a fun track. I've seen that clip before. A mate linked me to it. Makes me want to get out there, unfortunately its all overgrown now. Best i could do is ride my push bike around it!

Hmm, With the diff, 3.54 is great for highway driving. With my wheels and that diff, i'm pulling 2500 rpm, maybe a bit less on the highway at 110 km/h.
I can live with 2900 rpm with a 3.9.
It does have the torque and does pull well in first and second, bit sluggish in 3rd but its definitely still acceptable as a turbo car. Its just not "snappy" if you know what i mean. "
I like the taller gearing for long cruises.

My only concern is the noise it'll make inside the cabin at 2900rpm. Mine already makes quite a racket! But i'm aiming to have the quietest 1600 in Australia!
Author:  Muzdat [ Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
Again on the subject of race circuits that no longer exist. The youtube link at the bottom, is to some video fottage taken at Oran Park (Sydney) on the South circuit in 1995. The footage was taken from the 1600 in this build thread with the 2.2L engine The footage does show that there is (as far as normally aspirated engines go) that there is no substitute for cubic inches when it comes to torque. The other car in the video has a 5 litre engine. The locked diff that I had does make it a bit of a handful when getting it to turn in, but it was heaps of fun. I must say that a locked diff for bitumen surfaced motor sport is a cheep option for putting the power to the ground BUT it will not suit all cars, or drivers for that matter. The bloke in the Commodore is a friend of mine so the main aim was to No1, have fun and No2, beat him and I achieved both. :D It does seem unusual now that fire proof gloves were not required? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAJtvu9Va4w
Author:  eskylid_1600 [ Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
So tastefully done mate, I can imagine this turns a lot of heads.

I plan on doing a rebuild of my car next year and it makes me nervous reading about the different snags people come to , and I think how will I ever be able to figure that out! Hopefully reading threads like this will help :D
Author:  Dave [ Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
Here is my old beast from back then, I did quite a few events at Nelsons Plains, then at the Ringwood hillclimb track. Also did a couple of events at Oran Park back in the day (also ran in the last event held there a few years back). I never ran at Amaroo myself but went along many times as a spectator / pitcrew for my uncle who used to race classic bikes through the 80's & 90's. Until he broke one too many bones and my aunt banned him from racing :shock:

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Author:  Muzdat [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
Bit of an update. As I mentioned a few months ago I wanted to lower the diff ratio from 3.9 to 3.5.
I have finally had a couple of weeks holiday which allowed me to do the conversion. I knew before I started that the deep spare wheel well would be a problem. I would not recommend the modification of the spare tyre well to fit a full size wheel. (up to 225 x 55x15) I thought it was a good idea at the time but have now realised what a dumb idea it really was..... 1. You can't get the diff out. 2. I run directional tyres and 3. You rarely get punctures these days anyway!
When I originally assembled the rear end, I bolted the diff into the cross member on the garage floor and jacked the assembly up underneath the car which could be all done in reverse but now that everything else is bolted in place that is not as easy as it sounds.
I took the easy way out and cut a hole in the wheel well the size of the diff. I cut it in one piece and was able to weld a 25mm flange section around the outside, put a gasket on that section and bolt it back in, so now it is quite easy to remove the diff.
I took it for a 350km high speed run on the freeway yesterday and am pleased with the result.

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Author:  SR20Datsun [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
The joys of modifying cars!
What kind of differential centre is that? Looks like a torsen. Subi or Amax?
Author:  Muzdat [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
Hi Nik, It's an Amax.
I think the torsen centre is the best centre for a road going car, and a clutch pack is best for competition.
At this stage it hasn't given me any trouble at all but I was wondering if your R180 Amax diff gave you trouble or you just wanted a R200 Quaife.
Do you know if the Amax unit has brass/bronze components, because when I drained the oil after about 2500km and looked at it in good sunlight, there was what looked like brass/bronze flecks in the container. Probably no more than you would expect from a new unit but I wasn't expecting any.
If it does have brass/bronze components, it raises the GL5 oil question.
Author:  SR20Datsun [ Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
The Torsens and motorsport is an interesting topic. One of the fastest hill climb formula Libre's in Australia runs a torsen. More predictable. It does change the way you tune suspension than a salisbury/clutch pack style. I personally don't like 2way style locking diffs due to their engagement. Great for drift, but quite bad for our unloaded semi-trailing arm suspension...

I haven't pulled the Amax diff apart, but you could ring up Modena Motorsport and ask? I don't think they run bronze bushes...
My diff/CV combination gave me trouble. I decided to upgrade to the R200 due to the physical size of the diff and the ability to withstand the power I would like to put out with semi-slick tyres.
If you have just set up the diff and ran it for 2500 k's I would think there would definitely be wear from the bearings/CW&P in the diff. The Torsens don't really wear that much.
Author:  Muzdat [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
I spoke to Max from Amax Engineering who at 71 was mainly wanting to talk about driving fast cars but he also did confirm that the torsen centre I have would not have any brass/bronze bushes.
The only explanation for the bras/bronze flecks in the bottom of the drain container is that it came from my gearbox.
I changed the gearbox oil after the discussion here concerning GL5 gear oil. The drain container was new and had never been used before and afterwards was left laying draining upside down for a few months after the gearbox oil change. When I used it to drain the diff it looked clean, but it seems like it wasn't.
Max also said that he still has some R180 torsen (ATB) centres and also a clutch pack version for serious motor sport. I don't know what the current pricing is. Anyone interested can contact him on 0418485460 (within Australia)
Author:  SR20Datsun [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
I always give my oil pans a quick squirt with some degreaser, just so I don't get any contamination for exactly that reason. I want to see what's in the oil when I drain it!.
Max is a character and a pretty good peddler. He did fairly well in the U2L sports sedans with a 1600.
How is your gearbox now that you are using the GL4 oil?
Author:  Muzdat [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Muzz's 71 1600
The gearbox is OK. It has always been a little knotchy 1st to 2nd when cold ever since I've got it on the road and the GL4 oil hasn't changed that. When building the car I wasn't prepared to tackle a transmission overhaul at home so I had a transmission shop replace all the bearings in it. They said all the syncro cones looked OK so they were left but I should have just spent the money and changed them anyway. Another great hindsight.
As you would know, because the Datsport SR20 crosmember sits the engine back towards the firewall it doesn't make getting the gearbox out of a 1600 a simple job in a home garage, so I will bear with it. :cry:
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