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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:11 pm 
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Hey Dave, Thanks for all of that, i am getting my mind around it all now but that little voice in the back of my head is asking more questions
thehelix112 wrote:
Joe,

Do you mean to imply you have an oil cooler already? Surely not standard?
The only time you would need bigger lines/bigger cooler is if the cooler isn't keeping up with the temperature demands which is unlikely I think.
Yeah it was on there when i got it, its about the size of the radiator (HUGE)
the car was done up by my old man and he took the turbo and accessories off so i have no idea what was done to it, let alone the internals
thehelix112 wrote:
You get upgraded valve springs because when the intake manifold sees positive pressure that pressure is acting on the upperside of the valves and trys to hold them open. You want to pick the valve spring rate based on the cam you want to run (less crucial for a turbo application) and the amount of boost you want to run. Ie, if you would run 100lb springs without boost but you want to run 20psi, then you run 120lb springs. :)
hmm another upgrade, do you know what other parts are boost specific, when i say boost specific i mean the parts the will break if boosted too much?

thehelix112 wrote:
A lot of computers have the MAP sensor built in so you just run a vacuum line directly to the computer. I've never seen/used a power FC so I couldn't tell you. Personally (that means ignore me if you like) I think the 240z is better suited to a front-mount air/air intercooler. But thats only my opinion - obviously depends greatly what you want to do with the car.
well i have a 280 and i tell you what i reckon you could fit a person in the pretty easily
thehelix112 wrote:
Almost drop in. I had to drill out the intake manifold by 0.5mm or so to get them to slide in. And yes I had to make a custom fuel rail using some fuel rail stock - aluminium extrude honed stuff. Wasn't particularly hard, but then it hasn't worked yet either :roll:
hahah i thought that might be the case with new injectors, what if i were to go for something like 550cc, is it bad to go for over kill, also alot of people talk about high and low pressure which is the best?
thehelix112 wrote:
Less compression means more boost yes. But it also means sluggish off-boost performance (which in turn means it'll take longer to come on to boost). Its a balancing act. The stock L28ET is 7.4:1 which is extremely low for a factory engine (and off boost, it feels it!). Personally, with decent fuel/intercooler/turbocharger/computer I wouldn't be going down to 7.4. I plan to build my L28 with around 7.8:1.
so if you are rasing your compression would'nt that mean that you can't run asmuch boost inturn making less HP?
thehelix112 wrote:
Trick i got told by a track racer in NZ is to get some copper pipe, beat the end flat, drill hole in it, and bolt it to the block. Then put some garden hose over the end and run the hose into the engine bay so you can listen to EXACTLY what the engine is doing. He said when tuning it was clear as day listening down the hose, but you couldn't hear anything outside. If you run forged pistons its unlikely you will destroy a piston straight away, you'd have to be unlucky to destroy a cast one straight away too.

Aslong as you keep an ear out while your engine is being tuned and make sure it doesn't, you should be ok.
Dave
I assume you meant out of the engine bay, so when i get it tuned it cant be predicted if it will detonate or not?

also i was talking to buckle last night and he said you were the man to talk to about l28 turbos (which i now see) but i was originally going to go for an t3/t04 hybrid but it looks like a GT is going to be the better option, what would you suggest also which flange would work best as i think i might have to get a manifold built due to i cant find one anywhere except america and it will cost 300 alone

Thanks
Joe


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:41 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Vic
Joe,

BensDR30 actually has a L28ET running, which is more than can be said for myself - so his input would be invaluable too.

There are no specific parts which will `break' if boosted too much. The main thing you want to avoid at all costs is detonation. That is why turbo engines have the reputation for blowing up.

Re intercooler in 280, go for it :)

550cc would be better again. I'll be upgrading to larger bosch ones (reputedly around 600cc) next time.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with high/low pressure injectors. All EFI is relatively high pressure (3-5bar), its only when you start talking about serious motorsport stuff (ala bosch bits) that you get up into the 8bar operating regions. Or are you talking about high/low impedence injectors?
In reality injectors are injectors, however, newer ones are designed with 4 points in the end of it and apparently have better spray patterns/atomisation than the older ones with a single point.

Yes I am raising the compression a bit. However 7.8:1 is still quite low. SR20s are 8.5:1 standard for example. Its not as simple as, less boost means less hp. More compression will mean the turbo comes on sooner and will be more drivable, it will also mean that more energy is extracted from the boost that is there.

Re garden hose, yes i did mean out of engine bay, and into cabin/wheverever tuner is. T3/T4 turbochargers work fine, but then so do pushrod dinosaurs. Why wouldn't you go for the best technology available and make more hp, more easily, for longer?
Flange makes exactly no difference. Pick the turbo, then get the manifold built to suit. FWIW there are heaps of turbos available that use the T3 flange (my GT35R for example).

Oh and $300 for a turbo manifold is CHEAP!

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 pm 
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Location: Melbourne
Thanks Dave

that was exactly what i was talking about with the injectors they flowing better, and also impedence, this is set already and cannot be changed correct so i have to look for that specification, also what are the l28s?

with the GT Range how do i go by figuring the a/r and trim and all?

Re: manifold that price is US and then i have to spend probably anoth couple hundred getting it sent over here, so in the end its probably not worth it, buckle was telling me about racetec and they seem pretty reasonably priced and then i can get it made the way i want :D

Cheers

Joe


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:57 pm 
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Joe,

I have no idea what size injectors the L28s are. Suffice to say, not big enough for what you want to do. Yes impedence is set.

GT turbos, basically, you pick the compressor size based on the horsepower you want, GT30s go up to 550hp apparently, next step up is the GT35 which goes to 650hp or so. Trim and A/R stuff is getting relatively technical. The trim is a measure of the difference between the inducer size and the excuder size of the wheel. Something with a larger trim value has the inducer closer to the exducer size. Basically, the inducer sets the maximum flow capability of the turbo. And I beliiieeeevvvee (?) that the smaller the trim the more suited the turbocharger is for high boost applications.

A/Rs i CBF going in to right now. Should do some work.

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm 
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Thanks again dave

so i am probably best off going to a turbo shop to find one that best suits my application, does anyone know of one?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Vic
Joe,

A garrett GT30R (PN: 705867-0002 - from http://www.turbofast.com.au/GTseries.html) would go over pretty nicely I'd think. This is fairly well one step down from my GT35R.

I presume you're not in Melbourne? If you're in Vic you're welcome to come for a ride in mine when it goes to see if you like the GT35R.

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:02 pm 
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dave, yeah i am in melb and a ride would be very cool, what have you done to yours and how many pounds are you running?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:10 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Vic
Joe,

You should pop along to dinner on thursday. A few faces coming along. St Kilda @ 7.30.

My car isn't running yet, few weeks yet. But heres a progress pic. Hope to run around 14psi on stock bottom end.

Dave


Attachments:
File comment: Engine bay as of a fortnight ago.
[ attachment ]
enginebay-gt35-2.jpg [ 83.43 KiB | Viewed 1322 times ]

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:03 am 
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Location: Melbourne
i see you dissconected the belt fan, how did you get the right size belts for the rest? or is it just not hooked up yet?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:09 am 
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Hi Dave,

Are you using any sort of bracing to the block with that manifold?

Regards,
Bob


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:30 am 
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Joe,

I just haven't put the fanbelt back on yet as it is cactus. Gotta get a newie.

Bob,

While in real life it doesn't look as bad as it does in the pic, the manifold definitely needs bracing to the block. I will be working this out once all the other stuff that HAS to be in a particular spot (wastegate/dumppipe) is where its supposed to be. At this stage I imagine I will be running a horizontal bar from either the collector or the turbine flange, back to the manifold flange, then a vertical(ish) bit of bar up from the rear of the block (where the forward bolt for the block/gearbox brace comes through the block).

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:37 am 
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Location: Karrinyup WA
why did you mount your turbo so far back in the engine bay? is it just to keep ambient engine bay heat to a minimum?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:04 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Vic
Aaron,

Lurch put me onto the bloke who made the exhaust manifold for his car and I picked it up pretty cheap. I take absolutely no credit for the turbo placement nor the craftsmanship of the manifold. That being said, combined with heat shielding I hope to be able to keep more heat away from the intake manifold than would otherwise be possible yes. Firewall is going to cook however. :D

Dave

_________________
USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:25 pm 
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Location: Melbourne
You told me it was heated footwell for the passenger. Anyway its a reminder to wear shoes in Daves car!

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